Debating Guns With a Gun Rights Activist

A few days ago, I posted something on Facebook about how maybe guns should be required to have permits and licenses, kind of like driver's licenses.

One friend and former coworker responded dismissively, asking what that would accomplish. 

This guy disappointed me when he proved to be a Trump supporter in 2016, and he has remained a supporter since. I have debated with him about Trump and other things and, despite the uselessness of the debate, thought I would respond to his comment with some facts about gun violence here and abroad. 

I just posted this, so he has not had time to respond just yet. 

I should not that I broke this up into different paragraphs, even though on Facebook, it came all in one big clump of commentary, due to the format there. 

Also, it will become obvious that I am not mentioning him by name, for reasons that should be obvious. Here is what I wrote to him:



Well ___, let's see. 

In 1990, New Zealand had a major mass shooting by a madman in Aramoana. Tighter gun laws were passed and, low and behold, we never heard of a major mass shooting there since. In Port Arthur, Australia, in 1996, a madman went on a killing spree, with 35 people killed. They passed tighter laws and, low and behold, we have yet to have seen a mass shooting in that country in the 20 + years since. In Great Britain, there was a mass shooting in Dublane, Scotland, and 12 people were killed. Gun laws were tightened, but there was another mass shooting a decade and a half later. They tightened gun laws again, and they have not had a major mass shooting since. There were two mass shootings in Germany, one in 2002, and one in 2009, and tighter gun laws were passed, gun violence went down, just like in Britain. 

These are all affluent, western countries, just like the United States. When  there were images of senseless mass violence in their countries, the citizens actually demanded action, and got things done, lessening the likelihood of it happening again. 

Here in the United States, the nation was shocked when there was a mass killing in a Killeen, Texas, with over 20 dead. No laws were passed to protect people. by the mass shooting at Columbine High School, but nothing was done. We had another huge mass shooting at Virginia Tech in 2007 (and there were plenty of smaller ones that did not stick on people's radars in between), but again, nothing was done. We had another mass shooting at Fort Hood, Texas in 2009. Shocking images once again, but also once again, nothing was done. We had another major mass shooting that shook the country in Tuscon, Arizona in 2011, but again, nothing was done. We had another mass shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, just a few miles from where the Columbine school shooting took p[lace, as I understand it, and this shocked people, again. Yet also again, nothing was done. Are you starting to notice a pattern yet? Later that year, we had the most shocking school shooting in this country's history, as 26 people, most of them roughly 6 and 7 year olds, were killed, because a lunatic who never should have had access to a gun instead had easy access, and he went on a rampage. The whole world was shocked once again, yet once again, absolutely nothing was done. Another mass shooting in San Bernardino, California in 2015 shocked the country, but no laws were passed. In 2016 in Orlando, yet another mass shooting - the largest mass shooting in this country's history at the time - killing 49 people. Yet again, a lot of shock, but zero action was taken. Then earlier this year in October in Las Vegas, yet another mass shooting as a gunman sprayed bullets from a de facto machine gun onto a crowd at a concert. 58 people dead, and much shock and debate. No action was taken. A little more than one month later, another mad man with a history killed 26 people in Sutherland Springs, Texas, the largest mass shooting in that state's history. Again, a whole lot of debate, but by people in power, again, nothing. Just a whole bunch of "thoughts and prayers." 

The NRA and it's sympathizers keep insisting that any restrictions - even the smallest ones - will inevitably lead to a Nazi style takeover, although there is no evidence of this. In fact, those other countries I mentioned are probably freer than we are in almost every way, and people can still get guns there. Just not unconditionally, because there are restrictions. But not here. God forbid we ever learn from the lessons of the past. We lead the entire world in gun violence among supposedly peacetime nations. Over 1 million people have died because of gun violence since John Lennon was shot in 1980! We have far and away the most deaths by gun violence of any industrialized nation, and it's not even close. So my thinking is that, indeed, maybe we should do SOMETHING at some point. Or, maybe, this is a problem (and a major source of embarrassment for Americans here and abroad) will somehow magically resolve itself if we keep doing nothing, and just hope it goes away. But look how well it has worked so far. Three of the largest mass shootings in history have taken place in the last year and a half or so. Doing nothing has not worked, but maybe we should keep trying to do nothing, in hopes that something will change eventually, eh, ____?

But you know, I heard somewhere that trying the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result, is the definition of insanity. So my thinking on this subject is that it is time for us to actually try doing something. Or are we going to wait longer, until the death tolls start to reach even higher? Maybe we need them to reach into triple digits, or into the thousands. Maybe we need one major mass shooting ever few days, instead of weeks, for us to wake up and recognize that this is, indeed, a problem. 

So, I am thinking that this might be a good first step. It does not take away the right to bear arms. There will not be some kind of massive gun grab by the government, and there most assuredly will not be another Holocaust or takeover by the next Stalin or Hitler. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that life goes on more or less as normal, except maybe we will have fewer headlines about gun violence, and particularly major mass shootings. Maybe this could be a good first step, or maybe some other action needs to be take place. But I think that SOMETHING needs to happen, at some point. A vast majority of Americans agree, including those who identify as Democrats and Republicans. Hell, I heard that even a majority of NRA members agree that there should be some kind of sensible gun legislation, such as background checks, passed at some point. Perhaps you think that we should go on doing nothing? Do you think that doing nothing has worked to this point? And if you think that we should do something, what, exactly, would that be?

How other countries changed their gun policies after mass shootings By Melissa Etehad June 16, 2016:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/16/how-other-countries-changed-their-gun-policies-after-mass-shootings/?utm_term=.e048995a6c52