Another Debate With a Trump Supporter

The other day, I put up a very clearly anti-Trump post on my Facebook account, and received some feedback from a Trump supporter.

Let me try to sum up:

It was a post that essentially favored impeaching Trump. However, I added the commentary that I did not believe that this could possibly happen, given the country's current political climate. Republicans are in control of Congress, and even though some of them - many of them, in fact - seem a bit wary of President Trump, they will never go to such lengths as to even consider impeaching him, as it would hurt their party too much. 

Also, there seems to be a stigma that exists in this country - just one of many ridiculous stigmas - that has it that a president, once in power, almost can do whatever he wants. That it takes some incredible set of circumstances to even start to think that a president can be removed. After all, only one president in history has actually been fully impeached, and one other stepped down before the very real possibility of being impeached could descend upon him. I know that some will bring up Clinton's having been impeached by the House of Representatives, but everyone knew at the time that the Senate would never follow up with impeachment. So, that one was just for show.

Anyway, I went on to mention that it should not be this big, incredible, almost unthinkable process to get a president out of office, once in the White House. That, in effect, it should be more like the parliamentary system in Britain, where Prime Ministers seem to come and go with varying lengths. Some last a long time, while others last only a few years, or even a few months. There was one prime minister in Canada who lasted just months back in 1993, and did not even make it out of the year. That is how I feel our system should work, when someone who is clearly not working out, or in this case, someone who is not working out and seems incredibly dangerous and irresponsible, somehow attains the highest office.

So, this Trump supporter, who again, I never met or even heard of, interjected. He mentioned what he felt were clear facts - the economy is going great, jobs and salaries are coming back, and essentially, America is better than it had been in years - and then sarcastically suggested to go ahead and impeach Trump, clearly insinuating that this would be a terrible, and clearly stupid, thing to do.

Well, I responded, but not before someone else responded, suggesting that those solid economic numbers were actually the product of his predecessor, and that Trump's own budget and financial policies would be taking effect soon enough. Then we would see what kind of an actual impact Trump and his policies would have, but not before then. I thanked this individual, and said that I was glad that he had said it, because the Trump fan would have felt I was lying or coming up with excuses had I brought it up.

Anyway, I mentioned that the facts that this guy was getting, with the overly pretty picture of where the country is right now, must have come from FAUX News, or Breitbart, or some other similarly dubious source, because that was not the America that I was seeing, either on the news or in real life. I asked if he was one of those Trump supporters who believed everything that his leader said, and felt that this man was infallible, incapable of making mistakes.

Then, in another paragraph, I mentioned my own belief that elected officials, and especially presidents, should be seen as our public servants. Far from being above criticism, it was our job as citizens to keep the pressure on them at all times, and to scrutinize everything that they said and did, rather than to simply remain loyal and believe everything that they say at face value, and never criticize anything that they do. I mentioned that there was no problem for me in criticizing Obama, or Bush, or Clinton, or now, especially, Trump. That, in other words, it was my duty as an American citizen to be critical of them.

So he responded, and said that I would never give credit to Trump for anything, going so far as to suggest that if Trump ended world hunger, I still would not give him credit.

This felt like a bit too much, but I refrained from mentioning my own skepticism that Trump has any interest in doing anything so noble as ending world hunger, or really, doing anything but personally enriching himself and building up his empire, as well as maybe taking care of his friends. What I did ask this guy is if he was capable of criticizing Trump on anything, or if he was one of those guys who felt that Trump was almost perfect, as if he really could walk on water. I pressed the point and challenged him by mentioning my skepticism that he could, and then added, "Prove me wrong."

He responded, saying that while he felt that Trump was an ass, he was running the country nicely, that things were basically going well in the country. In short, that Trump is a good leader. Then, he concluded by saying that he felt he had proved his point, and by extension, proved me wrong.

So, I "laughed" at that status, and responded with two entries, which I will post now, in two separate paragraphs (one for each response). I wanted to stick to the facts, to get this Trump supporter to see the chaos that I, and frankly, the vast majority of the people, see going on daily, with each new headline from the White House, or from wherever President Trump happens to be. The emphasis for me was sticking to facts, irrefutable facts, so that he could check these (which I encouraged him to do) and, where necessary, he could even go on Youtube and check video of to see if Trump had actually said or done these things, just in case he was particularly skeptical. Here, below, are the two paragraphs:

Here are some irrefutable facts about the Trump presidency so far. This is stuff that you can look up yourself, and watch Youtube videos for, if you don't believe me. The Trump White House has been a revolving door administration, with unprecedented turnovers and firings. It has seen more scandals in eight months than most administrations see in eight years. His own Secretary of State, Rex Tillerson, called him a "moron." Members of his administration and other Republicans have to continually try and defend his stupid, immature, and petty tweets, which just never stop. He has been described by many within his own party as completely lacking in discipline of any kind. Republican congressmen have shown similar disrespect, describing the Trump White House as an adult daycare center, because of Trump's immature antics. Mitt Romney referred to him as a scam artist, and he was not even running for the presidency! And ALL of that is just within the Republican party! Other nations have banded together and signed agreements, strengthening their ties, because they felt that the United States under Trump is hopeless. Within hours of meeting with Trump, several European leaders, including the head of Germany, obviously the biggest European nation, stated that they no longer felt that they could view the United States as a reliable partner. The Pope was disgusted with Trump after their meeting - imagine how obnoxious you must be to draw ire from the Pope! The entire world condemned him for his announced withdrawal from the Paris Accord, and it condemned him for not calling out Nazis during the recent march in Virginia, and it condemned him for his mishandling of the disasters that hit Puerto Rico, and it condemned him for threatening to wipe an entire nation off the map, and it just condemned him for refusing to certify the Iran Deal. Trump has attacked the press and questioned their freedom to report bad news on him time and time again, conveniently ignoring the first amendment's guarantee of free speech and free press, much like a tyrant would do. Now, let's look at what he promised he would do. He claimed he would be the greatest jobs creating president in history, but he trails four recent presidents in that regard. He promised he would make Mexico pay for the wall, and he obviously cannot keep that promise. He promised he would not play golf, because he would be too busy working for the American people, but he has played golf pretty much every weekend. He promised his supporters to go after Hillary and "Lock her up." Another broken promise. He promised to be the president "for all Americans," yet he has easily been the most polarizing president in recent history.

So, with all of that - and that's not nearly everything - you still believe him when he claims that his administration is running like a well-oiled machine? Lol! You really think you checkmated me by simply saying that the impeach stuff is BS, and he is, according to you, doing a good job? Sorry, you are going to have to do better than that. Again, all of those things that I stated are the facts. He described the healthcare system of Nambia - a country that does not exist - during a meeting with African leaders. He just claimed to have met with the President of the Virgin Islands, although he IS the President of the Virgin Islands, because it is an American territory. The man cannot stop humiliating himself and embarrassing the country he represents as a result. You want to impress me, or to win some points here? Start defending all of these things. Prove to me that you are paying attention, and Google these things, watch some videos of your man revealing just how brilliant he is. Then start finding ways to defend what is, frankly, indefensible. The man has a wealth of ignorance, and yet he also has unparalleled arrogance. For the United States, he has offered nothing but failures, even though he claimed that the country would just win, win, win under him. Remember him promising that we would win so often, that we would get sick and tired of winning? So far, he has failed to defeat ISIS in 30 days, like he promised. He has repeatedly failed to repeal and replace Obamacare, like he promised (although he is trying by the same strategy - the executive action - that so many Republicans condemned Obama for using). He has robbed the Presidency of any kind of dignity and honor it once had. He is a failure, through and through, and we still have well over three years of his crap to deal with. It will only get worse. So tell me, how is it that you, and the tiny minority of people who respect and support him, seem to think that he is doing such a wonderful job again? List his accomplishments since January 20th now. I'm waiting.

Indeed, I am still waiting, although as I write this, it has been less than 24 hours since writing that and challenging him.

Essentially, my aim is to try and wake this guy, and any Trump supporters up, by trying to get him (or other supporters) to see what I and so many millions of others see, that their man has shown nothing of serious leadership, and that chaos follows him everywhere that he goes, with everything that he does. 

In the past, I have challenged a few Trump supporters, but gotten nowhere. Each time, the conversation ended where this one so far has at least stalled, if not outright ended, as well. That would be with me asking quite directly what it is about their man that they think is so great, after providing a laundry list of things that I found good reason to be skeptical about.

So far, I have never received a real response, just basically dismissals of my overall argument, or some similar nonsense, such as one guy suggesting that my arguments were an avalanche of lefty, liberal thinking, and that he essentially had no time for it. 

But I am really trying to understand how anyone could find the appeal in a man like Trump, because honestly, I just do not see it. To me, he is, and always has been, a clown act. A ridiculous figure never, ever to be taken seriously. That certainly has not changed, just because now, he is the president. If anything, his absurd nature has become even more glaring and impossible to miss, in light of the greater seriousness of his now official status as president. 

At one point, I got a halfhearted sort of response from a Facebook friend (and former coworker), but only months afterwards, and not on the same post where I challenged him, but on a separate one. This guy basically argued that Trump was the same as any other president, neither better nor worse, but that in the end, his saving grace was that at least he was entertaining.

This point angered me. I quickly suggested that he was most definitely not the same as any other president, having shown himself to be far more ignorant, arrogant and presumptuous in terms of how powerful he felt he was. The whole world is watching him make idiotic comments, essentially making a fool of himself, and of the entire nation that he claims he represents. 

Frankly, I also am sick and tired of people suggesting that "at least he is entertaining." Are we so fucking spoiled in this country, and is our attention span now so ridiculously, even offensively short, that we need an entertainer, a clown act, to serve as president? The job of an elected official, and particularly a president, is not to be entertaining, but rather, to be professional, and to do his or her job seriously. To be informed, to care about the issues concerning the people that this individual was elected to represent, and to take a serious approach when trying to fix the problems as they see it. In the case of the president, that means taking a tough and honest look at the country's problems (and there really are no shortage of problems facing the country right now, right?), and then to take some serious action towards fixing them, recognizing that really bad decisions and/or not being serious (or being a clown act) not only does not help, but seriously, even fatally, detracts from his ability to do the job that he was elected to do. 

That is how I feel about this, and that is why I cannot take seriously not only Trump's ridiculous antics, whether in arrogant statements (even when some feel that this is a "refreshing change"), or with his supporters, who rejoice in how "entertaining" Trump is. If so many Americans - especially those who loudly and proudly claim to be patriotic, cannot do better than to put an entertainer and obvious con man into the nation's highest office, then as far as I am concerned, they themselves only are into their patriotism on a surface level, with a focus on entertainment, on putting on a show. Thus, the emphasis on correct displays of patriotism, as opposed to truly addressing what obviously ails the country, whether that be the numerous hurricanes that devastated Texas and Florida and especially Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, or whether that be addressing the serious questions of power by some police officers, particularly when dealing with young black men, or if it is regarding potential armed conflict with nations like North Korea or Iran. Making mind-numbingly stupid, arrogant, and reckless threats of annihilation before the United Nations is just not something that any world leader should ever engage in, because this no longer falls into "entertainment," and is actually, and frankly, obviously, dangerous and criminal.

But then again, this is who Donald Trump is, always has been, and always will be. I just want at least some of his supporters to begin to understand that.