Oh, I know that I promised to try not bothering debating with Trump fans, something I probably stated her multiple times in the past. This time, I was good on that for a while. In fact, there were no serious debates with any Trump fans for probably a few weeks before the election, and then since, until this weekend.
Then, a coworker, a young man just a few years out of high school, voiced his political opinions. It is so depressing to me when someone so young so easily and unquestioningly identifies with bitter attitudes of generations past, and shares in their prejudices. He had done this a number of times in the past, and for the most part, I rarely ever took the bait even a little bit. Usually, I just smile, sometimes even nod or shrug, but mostly make a point of not engaging. He kind of believes some crazy stuff, and experience has told me that it is just not worth it to argue against someone who believes whatever they want to believe, regardless of facts.
But this weekend he started saying some things, and then, he mentioned how he felt that the election was too close to call. Suddenly, and against my better judgement, I heard myself saying, almost before realizing it, that the election had already been decided. From that point onward, the debate was unavoidable.
He mentioned how some of the states were too close to call, and I responded that they had already been called, once all of the votes had pretty much been counted. He said that he felt that Trump could come back, and again, I reiterated that in most of those states, all of the votes had already been counted. So he said that Congress still had to vote. I think that he meant how the electors’ votes will be heading to Congress, which is slated to take place on December 14th. I mentioned that never before in history has Congress overturned a clear and decisive election result such as this one. Also, how Trump was the first major party candidate – let alone sitting president – who refused to acknowledge the results of a presidential election in which he lost. All the others, with one exception, had conceded by this late in the game.
Then he mentioned that one, citing Bush/Gore in 2000. I reminded him that the disputed results of that election were based on controversy over one decisive state, Florida, where the election had been decided by less than six hundred votes, in a state with a population that, at the time, had over 15 million. In this election, by contrast, Trump had not lost just one key state, but a number of them. And he lost them by a whole lot more than a few hundred. Trump lost Arizona by over 10,000 votes. He lost Georgia by around 15,000 votes. He lost Wisconsin by over 20,000 votes, and Republican Governor Scott Walker had warned Trump that while he had the right to contest the election results in that state, that it would be an uphill battle. He lost Nevada by over 30,000 votes. He lost Pennsylvania by over 68,000 votes. He lost Michigan by well over 140,000 votes. I asked him if he did not think that this was a lot of key states to have lost, and a lot of votes to call into question, which makes me feel that the chances are slim. But he was not dissuaded, and just smiled confidently, stating that he still felt Trump would emerge the winner.
Okay. He said that there was a lot of proof of foul play in Pennsylvania specifically, and that it would be reversed and called in Trump’s favor soon enough, and that this would be enough. I reminded him that, as of right now, Biden had collected 306 Elector College votes, and that if Pennsylvania was indeed reversed, he would still have 286 Electoral College votes, still well over the 270 threshold needed to officially win.
I also mentioned how the Trump campaign sure did not seem to protest the late votes coming in when they were in Trump’s favor, as they were in North Carolina, Ohio, and Arizona, where he was closing in on Biden’s lead for a while. It seemed strange to me, I mentioned, also, how it seemed inconsistent, the message of pro-Trump people. They were asking for the count to be stopped in Pennsylvania and Georgia, but demanding votes be counted in Arizona. Why such a lack of consistency?
This young men suggested that there was a lot of fraud. He mentioned how some votes had been thrown out in Arizona because of sharpies, and I mentioned how this had been debunked already. He mentioned how a lot of people had voted in the state of Nevada before moving out, and how this might be illegal. I reminded him that the total number of those contested votes were roughly 2,000, hardly enough to reverse the results of the election in that state, and how they found out that what had actually happened was that this was military personnel who had legally voted in Michigan, but had been stationed elsewhere, and that besides, military personnel were likely to vote in favor of Trump. He mentioned how Trump representatives had not been allowed inside of the rooms where votes were being counted while Biden representatives were, and I told him to look at video of the court case where Trump officials had made this claim in court, and conceded when pressed that, indeed, they did have representatives in those rooms, which less to the judge asking what their problem was, then?
He kept going, though, and mentioned that there were a lot of problems with the voting machines, and how a lot of dead people, apparently, had voted. And I mentioned something that my brother had said, and which made sense to me: if Donald Trump had a smoking gun proof that this was the case, and that it decided the election, don’t you think he would be screaming left and right about it without end? Instead, he literally hid from public view and remained quiet for a full week after the election, other than his tweets, and that this did not exactly resemble the behavior of someone who knew he won the election.
I mentioned that Trump could and would offer whatever proof he has of election fraud in the courts, but that he would have to do a lot better with that than what he was doing so far, because it just was not standing up in the courts.
He argued that it was not up to the press to declare a winner in the election. I mentioned that Trump seemed to rely on the press to declare himself the winner on election night, well before all of the votes were counted in a majority of the states, and apparently, this guy had no problem with that. Trump also had done that in 2016, and again, no conflict there.
He asked how it was that Trump could have such a seemingly solid lead early on election night, and how this could change so quickly, literally overnight, and said that they were not counting votes overnight. I stated that they had counted votes overnight, that I had worked that night and watched them doing it in the live reports all night, literally in most of the battleground states. You could see them in those rooms, counting. Also, I mentioned to him that Trump had urged his supporters not to do mail-in votes, and so most of the vote by mail which came in later than the early vote counts were in favor of Biden, not Trump, using Trump’s own logic, since he had advocated his supporters go in person, and not vote through mail.
None of this dissuaded him. When asked directly, he still smiled, and said that he felt that in the end, Trump would be proven to have won. I told him that it was obvious that was what he wanted to have happen, but that there was a difference between that and what appears to be the reality. I warned him not to hold his breath waiting for Trump to suddenly emerge victorious, but otherwise, finally resorted to shrugging, and dropping the whole thing.
I was tired, and wanted to kick myself for engaging in yet another pointless conversation with someone who just could not accept reality.
Guess I never learn.
Once again, it may be time to remind myself to be better at not bothering to engage in such pointless conversations.
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