Recently, I engaged in a little, mostly friendly debate with an old college friend of mine from the old Bergen Community College days. This friend, back then at least, had supported me while I was president of the Environmental Club, and seemed to be a friend to the cause, to boot.
In the intervening years, however, something happened. Things changed somewhere along the line in his life, because his perspective on a lot of things seemed different. Not entirely different, because I always strongly suspected that some of what he revealed back then were viewpoints which betrayed a certain conservative ideology, at least on some issues. Yet, he has gone hardcore since, and is now actively, loudly and proudly pro-Trump. In fact, I recently saw him seriously suggesting that Trump was the greatest president in American history.
During a recent frigid streak here in New Jersey, where we experienced a really deep freeze for maybe a week or so, he posted an article illustrating the dangerously cold weather which we in the Garden State were then experiencing. Below is the link to the article:
Polar Vortex Freezes NJ: See How Long It’ll Last by Veronica Flesher, Verified Patch Staff writer, Tue, Jan 21, 2025:
Dangerously cold weather with wind chills as low as 10 below zero is in store for New Jersey this week, according to forecasters.
Polar Vortex Freezes NJ: See How Long It'll Last | Across New Jersey, NJ Patch
https://patch.com/new-jersey/manchester-nj/s/j4605/polar-vortex-freezes-nj-see-how-long-it-ll-last?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_term=weather&utm_campaign=autopost&utm_content=newjersey&fbclid=IwY2xjawIdejJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHShO9ZdOP4NpcIRkTi-hqFarYh-4tagdb99Adhop1V8fJZnPtBUVTqOp3g_aem_Mi9HFE02Fp8QUHU-zUf5OA
Accompanying his posting this on Facebook, he commented with the words "global warming" and had an emoji expressing a sick face. One other person (presumably a Trump supporter, and apparently a skeptic of climate change/global warming) had reacted with a "laughing" emoji, seemingly showing support.
Now, I have been trying not to really engage Trump supporters all that much lately, in the past few years. I tried it a few times - on occasion some blog entries here have even documented some of those conversations - but found this an exercise in futility. It was pointless, because facts really do not matter. You can point to fact after fact, and they will either instinctively claim that what you are arguing is their favorite go to argument of "fake news." Or if you provide real and undeniable proof, they either stop responding (and showing absolutely no signs of having changed their mind even a little), or they dismiss it. Never, on any real level, do I get them to concede that maybe Trump really is not as Godly a figure as he often is portrayed to be by his supporters. At most, you will get them to say something like "well, he has his flaws," which to me is a cop out. Everybody has flaws, so that means nothing. What makes Trump different is that he thrives on his flaws to the point that they identify who he is. He takes pride in his flaws, and becomes champions of those same flaws, advocating in many different ways, with varying degrees of subtlety, that everyone should admire his flaws, and even possibly follow his example. In other words, he brins out the absolute worst in people. Right now, I feel very strongly that he is actively bringing out the worst in this country, and actively working as a divider and a polarizing figure. Nor is he restricting this to just this country, as his recently expressed Second Manifest Destiny expansionist desires have unsettled much of the rest of the world.
So I did not want to get into any outright debates about Trump with this old friend of mine, specifically.
However, I did take exception with the whole skepticism towards the science behind climate change, or global warming, thing. And I decided, possibly against my better judgement, to go ahead and make an exception and engage him in a bit of a debate, restricting it to climate change/global warming only, and not to wider issues relating to Trump or FOX News or other viewpoints which he may have. This was how I responded, and the basic gist of our conversational exchange from a few weeks back:
No offense, Blank (I will protect his anonymity here), but you might want to take some time to learn a bit more about what scientists actually predicted in regards to climate change or global warming before voicing criticism or skepticism towards it. Apparently, the name "global warming" throws you off. But scientists NEVER predicted that the world would just grow warmer and warmer all of the time, without end or seasonal variations. What they actually predicted, if you are willing to look into it, are more extreme weather patterns, and that is exactly what we have seen now for decades. Yes, that means more extreme heat and droughts and wildfires during the summer, but more extreme conditions in the winter time, as well, including snowstorms and such. What no scientists suggested was that there would be an absence of cold days or conditions in New Jersey, or elsewhere. So far, regardless of the skepticism that people like you give voice to, the fact of the matter is that weather conditions have proven to grow more extreme worldwide. Do you also post these kinds of things when a wave of record hot temperatures around the globe in 2017 are surpassed with new records by 2019, which are surpassed with still new hot records in 2021, which are surpassed still by new records in 2023? Or do you keep your focus only in New Jersey, and don't care about GLOBAL trends when talking about GLOBAL warming? Let me know if you want me to provide very specific illustrations with articles about those record hot temperatures, since you seem to associate climate change/global warming only with record heat. There is too much evidence out there to serve as proof - from images of glaciers which have melted to nothing, or record droughts and wildfires in some regions, and record floods and storms in others - simply to dismiss it, even if you seem intent on doing so. If you want to open yourself to evidence which might challenge your current view, then I'd be happy to oblige, as part of a respectful discussion between friends. There is undeniable documented proof of those record hot temperatures around the globe regularly setting new records every few years in places like the Arctic, Europe (where highways literally were on fire just a couple of years ago), China, the Arabian peninsula, Australia, and the southwestern United States. It's hard to dismiss all of that, or how eerily it resembles what scientists actually predicted decades ago. If that's some kind of a hoax, those responsible really outdid themselves. But if, on the other hand, you don't want me to provide articles and records, then so be it. I won't bother responding, and will leave you in peace, and even urge you to keep posting what you're posting if it brings you happiness.
He responded by talking about how, in his opinion, meteorological data had been skewed because there are recent readings in parts of the world which previously were not privy to modern technology, and thus had no recorded data of temperatures and/or consistent daily weather conditions. Satellite and other technology, he argued, had already changed that. Then he mentioned how scientists in the seventies had predicted an ice age, and that the "current claim" (his words, specifically) and shift in language to climate change is flawed because of the historic temperature readings.
This was my response (with some articles to illustrate my point):
Sure, technology altered our understanding of our world, including weather patterns. But does it take technology for most of us to know that something is different. Moreover, that something is wrong? You talk about how cold it is right now in New Jersey, where we are experiencing a deep freeze. Fair enough. Would you have railed against it in the same way this past November, when the first few days had temperatures flirting with 80 degrees Fahrenheit, and felt like summer? That in fact, it almost felt like summer last year in New Jersey stretched through October and into November? Did that strike you as normal? Because to me, it felt surreal. Also, we generally have mild winters, and it hardly takes a scientist who studied climate change throughout life to recognize that winters just don't feel as intense and snowy as they used to when we were kids, even though I am saying this during the middle of a very cold stretch. Deep down, if you are honest and objective, I think you know that the weather is not what it once was. My father remembered that winters in and around Paris used to be snowy and icy. Now, it makes headlines if Paris gets so much as an inch or two of snow. Here in Jersey, I remember winters where it felt like we were shoveling snow every few days, to the point where you feel it in your hands and back. There was one month a couple of years ago where it felt like we returned to that, although otherwise, I cannot remember the last time we actually had a winter filled with snowstorms like that. Am I dreaming that? There are many people who acknowledge it as well, and that has nothing to do with meteorological data or extra readings. And again, since you seemed to be fixated on the warming aspect of it, did you notice when there were record hot temperatures in those various regions of the world which I mentioned earlier? It was so hot in Arizona - a region that knows a little something about heat, btw - a few years ago, that they warned people of the danger of eyes getting dried up within minutes (or maybe it was seconds) of going outside. Or in Saudi Arabia, another place which knows a little something about heat, where temperatures reached points bordering on the limits of what scientists believe humans can actually survive. Here is a link to one such article from last year:
The Persian Gulf is enduring life-threatening heat indexes above 140 degrees published by WASHINGTONPOST.COM
Persian Gulf, Dubai experience life-threatening heat indexes above 140 - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2024/07/18/persian-gulf-dubai-heat-climate/?fbclid=IwY2xjawIddXFleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHeUHpvsLMFCoFdm7gRKKzN2JPwcxXcS9-7ciAbL_p7XbYdbX6-zku3tMgA_aem_EGgLl8DALdOFBFn0xIrv5Q
Here's one for Arizona, a bit more recent than the dry eyes one that I was talking about. But it also kind of illustrates the point:
In 2024, Phoenix shattered over a dozen all-time heat records. Here's what they are
The Arizona Republic Subscription Offers, Specials, and Discounts
https://subscribe.azcentral.com/restricted?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.azcentral.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Farizona-weather%2F2024%2F08%2F16%2Fphoenix-heat-breaks-over-a-dozen-all-time-records-what-are-they%2F74831426007%2F&gps-source=CPROADBLOCKDH&itm_source=roadblock&itm_medium=onsite&itm_campaign=premiumroadblock&gca-cat=p&gca-uir=true&gca-epti=z117261e006200v117261b0080xxd118065&gca-ft=13&gca-ds=sophi&theme=twentyfour&hideGrid=true&gnt-eid=control
Those are just 2024. I have links to articles of record heat in some regions of the world being set in 2017, then being passed by new such records in 2019, and again by 2021, and again by 2023. I urge you not to take my word for it. By all means, do your own research and see if I'm gaslighting you, or if maybe there really is something to this that does seem more than a little unusual and alarming.
When I see headlines from around the world like that, or the recent wildfires in southern California, it takes more than just a few cold days with frigid temperatures in New Jersey in late January to make me skeptical of climate change, or global warming if you prefer.
Also, while technology has altered our knowledge of specifics, the records of temperatures - including record highs and records low temperatures -began in the mid-19th century. So we're approaching the better part of 200 years with recorded temperatures, which is far more extensive than I feel you were giving it credit for.
He then told me that he really appreciated my logical approach. He said that he would need a bit of time to provide me with a response.
Then, I responded by saying "Fair Enough."
So far, he has not responded. It's possible that the debate is over. But it's also possible that he will respond at some point. There is no way to tell for sure.
Whenever I enter into a debate about climate change, there is always so much that I want to say, but seemingly I often forget to say it. My guess is that this is because there is simply just a ton of information (and I would be so bold as to consider it proof) that climate change is indeed all too real. I recently visited Cape Town, for example. And that flirted with becoming the first major modern city of the world to face a existential water crisis just a few years back. The crisis was averted, but there are signs everywhere there (almost literally, in fact) documenting how the city had indeed faced this crisis, and the steps which they are taking to address them. Yes, I believe that this issue was related to climate change/global warming, because like almost everywhere in the world, Cape Town and the region around it has grown dramatically in terms of population. And this adds extreme pressure on the environment, and it feels like these considerations are leading to an increasing number of similar crises. Look at the West in the United States. I remember looking out at the water which the Hoover Dam (between the Arizona and Nevada border) was containing, and how the water levels looked a bit low. How despite the water, there was not a blade of grass to be seen anywhere around on the hills and grounds surrounding this manmade reservoir, and how this provided much needed water to huge (and still growing) population centers out West, like Las Vegas and Phoenix and southern California).
It felt like a disaster just waiting to happen. Hell, it still feels like a disaster waiting to happen.
And yes, this feels like something which was certainly part of what scientists were warning about - in fact, have consistently been warning about - for many decades now.
It also feels like the "solution" is not simply to continually get major polluters to spend enormous sums of money to try and disingenuously muddy the waters, so to speak, when it comes to the scientific debate about climate change/global warming. Even more, it is not the recent successful attempts to censor the very mention and idea of climate change/global warming (first by Governor Rick Scott in Florida, and then by President Trump) that will resolve or improve these issues. Ignoring a problem is the childish way of pretending like it might just go away on it's own.
This particular problem will not be going way anytime soon. And it is my opinion that we urgently need everyone to sober up (frankly, to grow up) and understand this. Because while there are political overtones with this debate (and certainly, there were at least hints of political overtones during this debate that I engaged in with my old college buddy), it really is not a political debate. This is science, and the debate is basically over. For the most part, the rest of the world seems to understand and accept this, even if the actions taken by many countries falls far short of seriously addressing climate change. But the fact that we here in the United States continually elect climate change skeptics and deniers into very high political offices, and they then make a mockery of the science and stifle the political debate, is not just falling short of helping, but actively contributing to making the situation far worse.
It is my opinion that we simply cannot afford that. And that is why, ultimately, I decided to go against my own new tradition of not debating Trump supporters and instead went ahead and debated one on this very urgent issue.
Side Note: I could not actually access the article from the Arizona Republic, so thus could not give credit to the writer for that particular piece. For the most part, it was posted just for the headlines, which illustrated how 2024 shattered all sorts of record hot temperatures in Phoenix. If you know who wrote that particular article, please let me know, and I will gladly add the information. Just did not feel like paying money for a subscription to a journal which is probably not even pertinent to me, since I rarely ever visit Arizona.
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