One of my favorite pictures from these Giants signing/autograph events. This is former Giants punter Sean Landeta, who was a member of both Super Bowl XXI and XXV championship teams. In fact, Landeta came back to the Giants late in the 2006 season for one game, and if he had stayed (or even played) for the Giants the next season, he would have earned a third Super Bowl ring with the team, because they won it all again in 2007. He gave me numerous autographs, and had pictures available for people with nothing else to sign. Landeta clearly enjoyed talking to the fans, and he even brought a miniature Lombardi Trophy given to players, as well as allowing fans to wear his Super Bowl ring. In this picture, I am holding the miniature Lombardi Trophy in one hand, and wearing an actual Super Bowl ring in the other, while next to a member of two of my favorite Super Bowl teams.
So this being Super Bowl Sunday, I thought it would be good to finally organize some mostly unpublished posts regarding my efforts - lasting several years - to obtain autographs from some of my favorite members of the New York Giants.
In admittedly typical fashion, I took a bunch of pictures of these, but often did not organize them immediately. Some of them, I forgot who I got signings/autographs of, even. My bad.
However, I did manage to get some really cool autographs, and got three full sized helmets, several mini helmets, a big poster of the old Giants Stadium, several smaller posters, and numerous books and photographs signed by a number of players. There was at least one, maybe two blog entries that actually were published, and then a number of blog entries that I never did quite get around to publishing. This is my attempt to correct that, and get at least most of the pictures of these autograph events published in a blog entry here, once and for all.
Enjoy, and let's hope for a great Super Bowl later today!
A little over one year ago, during the summer of 2015, I went over a friend's home. He is a Jets fan, and on display was an old Jets helmet from the 1990's, prior to their switch to the retro helmets of the Namath-era Jets of the 1960's and most of the 1970's. The helmet had been signed by numerous members, past and present presumably, of the New York Jets over the years.
It looked fantastic, and I began to wonder if I myself could do something like this. Why not?
That was what I thought at the time.
Indeed, some guys at my job, who are more passionate about the New York Giants (and sports in general, frankly) than me mentioned that the Giants allowed some signing sessions for fans during their summer training camps - at least those ones that are opened to the public. The thing was, I was saving up for a trip out west, and was on a bit of a tight budget.
So, I skipped it, because my priorities were elsewhere. Then, for most of the year following, I largely forgot about this.
That is, until this past summer's Giants training camps, when I overheard some of the guys at work talking once again about training camp and getting autographs. When I expressed interest, one of the guys (probably the most passionate) came over and handed me a schedule, and I noticed some names of the old Giants from the Super Bowl XXI and XXV teams.
It was at that point that I started to commit to the idea of getting some of my mini helmets signed. I did not have a full sized Giants helmet yet, although the mini helmets would do, I figured.
The guys that I was particularly interested in were Plaxico Burress of the Super Bowl XLII team, and then Bart Oates of the XXI and XXV teams. A few days later, Brad Benson and Sean Landeta of those 1980's Giants would be there, as well.
I was not entirely sure what to expect, and there was a stated limit of one autograph per person. That turned out to be true for the larger draws, such as Plaxico Burress, where there was a long line. However, for those other guys, they were willing to sign usually a couple of autographs, and in some cases, quite a few. That was good, because on top of the mini helmets, I also had a book that I had gotten many years ago, as a kid, honoring the 1986 championship team.
That book in particularly had been special to me, because I remember reading it during the 1990 season, and hoping against hope that the Giants could win another title, and bring back the magic for us fans. Indeed they would succeed in so doing, and that was the team that wound up meaning the most to me, probably by far. That includes even the 1986 season, which came to be their first championship of the Super Bowl era, as well as the two Super Bowl championships since.
Also, there was a funny story in which that book figures prominently for the autographs that I sought and obtained for it this year. During my senior year in high school, a friend of mine was kind of obsessed with Phil Simms, who had then just lost his starting job to Jeff Hostetler. Somehow, this guy found a way to obtain the home number for none other than Phil Simms himself, and he went over and got an autographed picture. A few weeks later, wanting to do it again, he talked me into going over to the Simms residence once again, to obtain another autograph. All I had was that book, and so I brought it.
Phil Simms was not home, although his wife seemed quite excited to see fans at the door. You have to remember that, for some reason, Giants fans did not take kindly to Simms, even going so far as to cheer during a 1990 regular season game against their eventual Super Bowl opponents, the Buffalo Bills. Simms was out for the season, and despite the fact that he was then having his finest season of his career (as well as the best year of any quarterback in the league that season statistically), people cheered as he was writhing in agony. That was one of the moments when I felt almost ashamed to be a Giants fan. It did not help Simms much when his replacement, Jeff Hostetler, wound up leading the team not only to the Super Bowl, but to their second title in five seasons.
So, I believe that his wife's pleasure at this sign of appreciation for her husband was understandable, as he was one of the most underrated players of his time. Really, he was a fairly elite quarterback, a former Super Bowl and Pro Bowl MVP who could have outright earned his second ring as a starting quarterback if not for that injury. Of course now, Simms has made a good career for himself in the broadcast booth, and so he seems to be doing just fine anyway. At the time, however, he was not as noted for his accomplishments as he deserved to be, and was fighting to regain the starter position that he had lost following the Super Bowl XXV season.
As we were walking away from the front door, Phil Simms pulled up in the wraparound driveway. He saw us, and said, simply, 'Hey guys."
Then he went inside.
Being idiots, we did not know what to do. We continued towards the car, and then turned around and rang the doorbell again. He came out and signed our stuff, including my book. That friend that I was with must have thought that he would be recognized, because he gestured towards me and said, "This is my brother." As if he was speaking to a longtime friend or family member, instead of a football star who likely did not recognize him. While Simms was signing the stuff for us, that friend kept talking about how great this guy as, which was a bit embarrassing.
That was indeed how I got Phil Simms to sign that book, and when I went to those other signings earlier this year, a couple of those other guys asked where I had gotten Simms to sign the book. Being embarrassed about the true story, I made up some nonsense. When Brad Benson asked, I mentioned that I got that many years ago. Not a lie, exactly, but not the entire truth. When Jim Burt asked, I said that I had gone to a Giants training camp many years ago. Also not a lie, although that was not where I had gotten the autograph. It is a story that requires a bit of explaining, otherwise I sound like a menacing stalker of celebrities. Perhaps I should have mentioned that I did not appreciate the thorns that they had in their own backyards. I'm sure they would have laughed.
In any case, for years (decades, even), that remained one of the relatively few books that I owned which was signed. Signed books were not something that I particularly collected, either, until I went to a Jimmy Carter book signing at some point in October of 2007, and saw how easy it was. Then, I began to actively look for opportunities to go to book signing events with authors that I really liked.
Perhaps, then, it was only natural that this interest would extend to sports, and beyond just books being signed.
And so this summer, I finally went to Giants training camp, and particularly showed an interest in getting certain things, like that book and like a couple of mini helmets signed. There was also a photograph of Bart Oates, specifically, that I had, and made a point of getting him to sign it.
The first day that I did it, it was with Bart Oates and Plaxico Burress, specifically. I entered the camp, and saw Bart Oates just kind of sitting there, with only a couple of people around him, getting their things signed. So, I went over and got that photo signed, as well as the book. Then, I went over to Burress, where the line was much longer. Obviously, Burress is a much more famous name, and his glory days were far more recent, for that matter.
Still, to me, Oates meant just as much. The Giants of the 1980's and early 1990's (or particularly, up to that 1990 season) was the team that meant so much to me, even more than either of the two Giants teams in recent years that managed to win Super Bowls. Oates was a member of both of the Parcells-era teams that won titles. He then switched teams and won another Super Bowl (XXIX) with the San Francisco 49ers. Oates also happened to be the special guest at one of the schools that I worked at, and he was wearing his ring from Super Bowl XXI on that day, which I believe was the first Super Bowl ring that I actually saw in person!
A few days later, there were two old Giants scheduled. One was Brad Benson, a legendary offensive lineman for the Giants in the 1970's and especially in the 1980's. He received a particularly impressive distinction late in the 1986 season, when he faced Washington's Dexter Manley in a huge showdown that was a de facto division title game. Both teams entered with identical 11-2 records, although the Giants had won the meeting between these two teams earlier in the season. Manley was the sacks leader, but Benson relegated him to three tackles and no sacks during that game, giving quarterback Phil Simms the time to complete passes that helped power the Giants to a decisive victory on that day. For his efforts, Benson won NFC Offensive Player of the Week distinctions, the only offensive lineman to have been given such an award! He famously had his nose cut up during that season, and this wound reopened week after week, although it did not slow Benson down.
The other guy was Sean Landeta, who was a great punter during his day. He played for both the Super Bowl XXI and XXV teams, and was a reliable source of punts during his years on the G-Men. Ironically, he may be best remembered for one of the relatively few mistakes that he made, during the playoffs against the legendary 1985 Chicago Bears. Landeta muffed a punt right by the Giants own end zone, and the Bears recovered for a touchdown that broke a scoreless tie and gave the Bears a 7-0 lead. They would go on to win, 21-0, although a lot of members of the New York Giants cited that game as the one that truly helped them elevate their level of play to the championship form that it would be the following season.
A few days later, I saw another big name that would be really cool to see: Jim Burt! He was easily identifiable among the 1986 team, as he had this stretched jersey that made him look simply huge and intimidating, although the stretched jersey was to ensure that nobody could grab onto his jersey. However, Burt's appearance would not be until August 14th, the day after my son and I left for our trip out west.
As things turned out, however, this wound up not being a big deal at all, as I discovered that he would be doing another signing at a Stop and Shop in Bayonne, New Jersey, in October. I was there!
So, I believe that his wife's pleasure at this sign of appreciation for her husband was understandable, as he was one of the most underrated players of his time. Really, he was a fairly elite quarterback, a former Super Bowl and Pro Bowl MVP who could have outright earned his second ring as a starting quarterback if not for that injury. Of course now, Simms has made a good career for himself in the broadcast booth, and so he seems to be doing just fine anyway. At the time, however, he was not as noted for his accomplishments as he deserved to be, and was fighting to regain the starter position that he had lost following the Super Bowl XXV season.
As we were walking away from the front door, Phil Simms pulled up in the wraparound driveway. He saw us, and said, simply, 'Hey guys."
Then he went inside.
Being idiots, we did not know what to do. We continued towards the car, and then turned around and rang the doorbell again. He came out and signed our stuff, including my book. That friend that I was with must have thought that he would be recognized, because he gestured towards me and said, "This is my brother." As if he was speaking to a longtime friend or family member, instead of a football star who likely did not recognize him. While Simms was signing the stuff for us, that friend kept talking about how great this guy as, which was a bit embarrassing.
That was indeed how I got Phil Simms to sign that book, and when I went to those other signings earlier this year, a couple of those other guys asked where I had gotten Simms to sign the book. Being embarrassed about the true story, I made up some nonsense. When Brad Benson asked, I mentioned that I got that many years ago. Not a lie, exactly, but not the entire truth. When Jim Burt asked, I said that I had gone to a Giants training camp many years ago. Also not a lie, although that was not where I had gotten the autograph. It is a story that requires a bit of explaining, otherwise I sound like a menacing stalker of celebrities. Perhaps I should have mentioned that I did not appreciate the thorns that they had in their own backyards. I'm sure they would have laughed.
In any case, for years (decades, even), that remained one of the relatively few books that I owned which was signed. Signed books were not something that I particularly collected, either, until I went to a Jimmy Carter book signing at some point in October of 2007, and saw how easy it was. Then, I began to actively look for opportunities to go to book signing events with authors that I really liked.
Perhaps, then, it was only natural that this interest would extend to sports, and beyond just books being signed.
And so this summer, I finally went to Giants training camp, and particularly showed an interest in getting certain things, like that book and like a couple of mini helmets signed. There was also a photograph of Bart Oates, specifically, that I had, and made a point of getting him to sign it.
The first day that I did it, it was with Bart Oates and Plaxico Burress, specifically. I entered the camp, and saw Bart Oates just kind of sitting there, with only a couple of people around him, getting their things signed. So, I went over and got that photo signed, as well as the book. Then, I went over to Burress, where the line was much longer. Obviously, Burress is a much more famous name, and his glory days were far more recent, for that matter.
Still, to me, Oates meant just as much. The Giants of the 1980's and early 1990's (or particularly, up to that 1990 season) was the team that meant so much to me, even more than either of the two Giants teams in recent years that managed to win Super Bowls. Oates was a member of both of the Parcells-era teams that won titles. He then switched teams and won another Super Bowl (XXIX) with the San Francisco 49ers. Oates also happened to be the special guest at one of the schools that I worked at, and he was wearing his ring from Super Bowl XXI on that day, which I believe was the first Super Bowl ring that I actually saw in person!
A few days later, there were two old Giants scheduled. One was Brad Benson, a legendary offensive lineman for the Giants in the 1970's and especially in the 1980's. He received a particularly impressive distinction late in the 1986 season, when he faced Washington's Dexter Manley in a huge showdown that was a de facto division title game. Both teams entered with identical 11-2 records, although the Giants had won the meeting between these two teams earlier in the season. Manley was the sacks leader, but Benson relegated him to three tackles and no sacks during that game, giving quarterback Phil Simms the time to complete passes that helped power the Giants to a decisive victory on that day. For his efforts, Benson won NFC Offensive Player of the Week distinctions, the only offensive lineman to have been given such an award! He famously had his nose cut up during that season, and this wound reopened week after week, although it did not slow Benson down.
The other guy was Sean Landeta, who was a great punter during his day. He played for both the Super Bowl XXI and XXV teams, and was a reliable source of punts during his years on the G-Men. Ironically, he may be best remembered for one of the relatively few mistakes that he made, during the playoffs against the legendary 1985 Chicago Bears. Landeta muffed a punt right by the Giants own end zone, and the Bears recovered for a touchdown that broke a scoreless tie and gave the Bears a 7-0 lead. They would go on to win, 21-0, although a lot of members of the New York Giants cited that game as the one that truly helped them elevate their level of play to the championship form that it would be the following season.
A few days later, I saw another big name that would be really cool to see: Jim Burt! He was easily identifiable among the 1986 team, as he had this stretched jersey that made him look simply huge and intimidating, although the stretched jersey was to ensure that nobody could grab onto his jersey. However, Burt's appearance would not be until August 14th, the day after my son and I left for our trip out west.
As things turned out, however, this wound up not being a big deal at all, as I discovered that he would be doing another signing at a Stop and Shop in Bayonne, New Jersey, in October. I was there!
Another (unpublished) entry from some now admittedly unknown date:
Giants Training Camps and Signings
I had a coworker a few years ago - by no means a rich man - who started talking to me about how he took his son to the Giants training camps, where they often would get some autographs from active players. He also mentioned that there were Giants legends from the past who would also come to these individual camp sessions which are open to the public, and free, and would give autographs.
He mentioned these a few years ago, although I only finally did start to go last year, during the summer of 2016.
In the process, I began to investigate some individual signings on my own separate from the training camp, and found that many Giants legends also do free signings at other times, particularly at local Stop and Shop locations.
So, I began going, and little by little, started to get some stuff for them to sign. One of them was a Giants helmet, which quickly filled up. I got it for $50 or so at the time, but now, it is most likely worth more, although selling it is not what I intend to do.
By going to many of these - and it is admittedly easier for me since I work the overnights - I was able to get a lot of autographs in a relatively short period of time. That cheap helmet that I bought is now almost full, if not outright there already. And I got some other goodies signed, like an old book about the Super Bowl XXI season which was already signed by Phil Simms back in 1992 signed by other players, including Joe Morris, Carl Banks, and Leonard Marshall, among many others. I got a poster of the old Giants Stadium, and got many former players to sign that, too.
Indeed, it was fun, and often times, my son was along for the ride, and helped get some of the autographs, even though he himself is not a big fan of football.
The training camps go through the summer, from late July to mid-August or so, usually. And the Stop and Shop signings seem to run on Saturdays during the season, from the opening week until mid to late November, give or take. So, they just ended for this year, and the last day wound up being the biggest day, as Joe Morris (former running back for the 1986 Giants, who won Super Bowl XXI), Howard Cross (former tight end for the Giants who played for the 1990 Super Bowl XXV champions, and stayed on the team for over a decade, becoming the only active player for the Giants for both the Super Bowl XXV and Super Bowl XXXV teams), and Jessie Armstead (he played for the Giants in the 1990's and early 2000's, and played in Super Bowl XXXV).
But there were plenty of other ones, as well. I saw Joe Morris earlier in the year out on Long Island, as well, and then raced out to New Jersey for a signing by former defensive great George Martin, the guy who scored on an interception return for a touchdown against John Elway in the 1986 regular season meeting between the two teams, and then sacked Elway in Super Bowl XXI, on a play that is often viewed as the turning point of that particular game (the Broncos had been winning and outplaying the Giants up to that point).
In the process, I got to talk to some of the friendlier ones, and it was really pretty cool!
Phil Simms, who I had actually met once before many, many years ago (he was still an active Giants quarterback at the time) still is a really nice guy. He was talking about the new stadium, and suggested that it was really cold, that he did not like it. I agreed with him, and he went on, saying that former fullback and tight end for the Philadelphia Eagles (he also played for the Dolphins, Patriots, and Jets) told him that the old Giants Stadium was also his favorite place to play football. He suggested that the crowds were just right on top of you, and that the place just had atmosphere.
The new stadium, Simms was saying, just lacked any real atmosphere to it.
Frankly, I agreed with him. The old stadium was a bit smaller, and perhaps did not have the same kinds of luxuries, particularly the luxury boxes and suites, but it felt different. Somehow, it felt more like a fitting home to the old New York Giants, while the new stadium just somehow feels...impersonal. Sure, it's bigger, and at first glance, it is a very nice place. But when you go to a game there? Well, I went to a preseason game with a friend this past summer, and he described it best, suggesting that it amounted to sensory overload. The old stadium was just a plain stadium. Sure, there were lights and advertisements and such, like any stadium. Yet somehow, the focus remained on the game. It feels like this new stadium itself aspires to be a focal point, that there are a hundred other things going on other than the game itself, and that is the problem. Because at the end of the day, it is just a stadium, and these distractions detract from the atmosphere of the game - as if we needed still more distractions!
Some other players who I got autographs from from either the training camp or the Stop and Shop appearances? Carl Banks, Leonard Marshall, Eric Dorsey Rodney Hampton, Jim Burt, Bart Oates, William Roberts, Karl Nelson, Brad Benson, Brian Kelly, Sean Landeta, Aaron Pierce, Dave Tyree, Stephen Baker, and Keith Hamilton - just to name a few!
Granted, I used to be much more into football in the past, but it is still a thrill to meet these guys, who I used to watch on television and, in some instance, actually got to see in games!
And I thought it would be cool to take pictures to remember these events by. So, here are some:
My son holding a mini helmet just after former great Giants linebacker Carl Banks had signed it.
Carl Banks, 58, Linebacker, Super Bowl XXI and XXV Champion
Ottis Anderson, 24, Running back, Super Bowl XXI and XXV Champion, XXV MVP
Ottis Anderson, Super Bowl XXV MVP signing my "Unforgettable Season" book just after signing my Giants helmet.
Stephen Baker "The Touchdown Maker" - 85, Wide Receiver, Super Bowl XXV Champion
Like Sean Landeta, Stephen Baker also tends to be fan friendly. I have gone to more than one of his signing/autograph events as well (I think just two), but he also always brought the miniature Super Bowl championship Lobardi Tropy miniature that each player was given, as well as his Super Bowl ring (although he kept it on his own finger, which is understandable). I actually ran into him outside of the men's room just before the signing, and he asked where the restroom was. I had assumed - wrongly - that he was one of those "superfans," and did not realize that this was Baker himself. Admittedly, I was surprised by how short he was, at least compared to other NFL players whom I have met. But he seemed to be a really cool guy in person.
Giants Training Camp Signings, Summer 2016
Sean Landeta, Giants Training Camp, August, 2016
Brad Benson, Giants Training Camp, August, 2016
Dave Tyree - 85, Wide Receiver, Super Bowl XXII Champion Famous for "Helmet Catch"
Dave Tyree, Stop and Shop in Kinnelon, NJ, September 17, 2016
Dave Tyree - 85, Wide Receiver, Super Bowl XXII Champion Famous for "Helmet Catch"
Dave Tyree, Stop and Shop in Kinnelon, NJ, September 17, 2016
Jim Burt, 64, Nose Tackle Super Bowl XXI Champion and Super Bowl XXIV Champion (latter as member of San Francisco 49ers)
Jim Burt, Stop and Shop in Bayonne, NJ, October 8, 2016
Stephen Baker, Stop and Shop in Ocean City, NY, October 22, 2016
Billie Taylor, Stop and Shop in Ozone Park, NY, October 22, 2016
Stephen Baker, Stop and Shop in Ocean City, NY, October 22, 2016
Billie Taylor, Stop and Shop in Ozone Park, NY, October 22, 2016
Brad Benson - 60, Center, Super Bowl XXI Champion
Eric Dorsey, 77, Defensive End, Super Bowl XXI and XXV Champion
Sean Landeta - 5, Punter, Super Bowl XXI and XXV Champion
Sean Landeta may have been the most fan-friendly of the former Giants players at these signing/autograph events. I actually went to more than one of his events. He always brought extra pictures and posters to sign for those who had nothing else, or those who wanted a couple more autographs. Plus, he always brought a helmet, as well as a miniature Lombardi Trophy and one of his Super Bowl rings. This was the one and only time that I actually wore a real, legitimate Super Bowl ring.
Karl Nelson - 63 Offensive Tackle, Super Bowl XXI Champion and Cancer Survivor
Karl Nelson was another cool, down to earth guy. He signed the helmet, poster, and couple of books that I brought for him to sign. This included a copy of his book, which came out after his battle with cancer. When he saw it, he showed his self-deprecating humor, saying to me, "Ah! So you're the one!"
Jessie Armstead - 98, Linebacker, 2000 NFC Championship Team
Howard Cross - Tight End, Super Bowl XXV Champion and member of 2000 NFC Championship team
Antonio Pierce - 58, Middle Lineback, Super Bowl XLII Champion
A youth football practice with Stephen Baker and Super Bowl XXV MVP Ottis Anderson
Holding a replica of the Vince Lombardi Trophy that members of the winning Super Bowl XXV team received after the big victory. Parcells made sure that his players received a smaller replica of the trophy after the team won Super Bowl XXI, and this was the miniature XXV trophy. One of the players present on this day - either Ottis Anderson or Stephen Baker, the two members of the Giants who scored touchdowns in Super Bowl XXV, brought this along. Think it might have been Baker, because he brought something similar (possibly the same) miniature trophy when I went to a signing of his last year, during the autumn.
Phil Simms - 11, Quarterback, Super Bowl XXI MVP, 1985 Pro Bowl MVP, and Super Bowl XXV Champion
Brian Kelly - 55, Defensive end, Member of the "Crunch Bunch"
George Martin - 75, Defensive end, Super Bowl XXI Champion
I believe this was the last of these Stop and Shop Giants signings that I went to, but it was also one of the most enjoyable. This was George Martin, a defensive end for the Giants who helped the Giants win Super Bowl XXI by sacking the legendary John Elway in the end zone for a safety in the first half, heling the G-Men capture the momentum in the game. He was very friendly, and was particularly impressed with my son, and was okay with him not being the biggest football fan.
Joe Morris - 20, Running back, Super Bowl XXI Champion
Joe Morris was also a great signing. He was the star running back in 1986, when he enjoyed a banner year. I actually attended two of his signings, and will have to find the pictures for the other one. If memory serves correctly, he was wearing a blue, throwback jersey, and his muscular arms were bulging out of it. You could see why, while perhaps shorter than most running backs, he nevertheless was very effective and strong. In the picture below, he is signing the "S.U. Football" booklet from his Syracuse University days, which he seemed to take great interest in, paging through it a bit. He also was generous with his autograph, signing my helmet, book, jersey, and the SU book, and perhaps a few other things (again, I went to more than one of his signing events.
Leonard Marshall - 70, Defensive Lineman, Super Bowl XXI and XXV Champion
CARL BANKS: (#58, Super Bowls XXI and XXV champion)
GEORGE MARTIN (#75, Super Bowl XXI champion)
George Martin was a surprise for the last day.
RODNEY HAMPTON, (#27, Super Bowl XXV champion)
My son and I receiving an autograph by former Giants running back Rodney Hampton, who was a member of the Super Bowl XXV champions during his rookie season.
JIM BURT (#64, Super Bowl XXI Champion)
Friday was Kareem MacKenzie (both XLII and XLVI) and Kevin Dockery (XLII), Sunday featured Rodney Hampton (XXV) and Sinorice Moss (XLII).
JIM BURT (#64, Super Bowl XXI champion)
LEWIS TILLMAN (#34, Super Bowl XXV champion)
WILLIAM ROBERTS, #66, Super Bowl XXI and XXV champion)
Pete Mitchell and Henry
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